What Dave Shephard Learned at West Point—and Applies in Private Equity

[00:00:00] Sean Mooney: Welcome to the Karma School of Business, a podcast about the private equity industry, business best practices in real-time trends. I'm Sean Mooney, BluWave's founder and CEO. In this episode, we have an awesome conversation with Dave Shephard, director of portfolio operations with Rainier Partners.

[00:00:25] Enjoy.

[00:00:34] So I am super excited to be here with Dave Shephard today. Dave, thanks for joining us.

[00:00:40] Dave Shepard: Yeah, super excited on my end too. I feel like I've worked with the BluWave team and other capacities and. I know it's a lot of awesome speakers have come on a lot of great topics and so hoping I can do some justice to the lineage that you've had up to this point.

[00:00:57] Sean Mooney: Oh, thank you. And, and we are really lucky to have you on 'cause our listeners are gonna hear, Dave's got a, a, a very interesting background, but B is, has seen a lot of things that are gonna help inform certainly business builders like me that find these things not interesting, but also action. Maybe as we jump in, Dave, what I'd love to do is start off with more of the story of you.

[00:01:21] So can you tell us a little bit about kind of where you grew up, how you kind of came up, maybe college, first job outta college, and then ultimately how you got into the world of private equity?

[00:01:30] Dave Shepard: It's a good question and I will try to answer it as succinctly as possible and maybe let that be particularly interesting parts of grew up, youngest of six.

[00:01:43] Single poor household. And so I think that started a lot of the themes that we'll talk about throughout the day of Jack of all trades, master of None. And so grew up doing a lot of things in high school, played sports was in the band, which a lot of people don't realize that they knew now really into academics.

[00:02:01] So I think that balanced kind of generalist lifestyle really attracted me. I ended up going into military, not because I had any military roots whatsoever, or didn't have any patriotic ambitions at the time. It was more of great education, free education, so ended up going there. Phenomenal experience felt in some ways, a little more like a job than a college experience at times, but really, really transformational.

[00:02:36] Deploy to Iraq, and so had a really awesome experience just leading people. The Army is one of the, the first or only institutions where you graduate from college and they just immediately put you in charge of people, right, wrong or indifferent. So really, really great experiences there. I really honed a lot of just kind of the.

[00:02:59] I wanted to do when I grew up, honestly, still don't, but at the time, felt like business school was a good way to figure that out. So I ended up gonna Harvard Business School and then thought consulting would be a great way to get exposure and again, just figure out what I wanted to be. So I went to Bain for seven years, started in Atlanta, ended up in Seattle, and the.

[00:03:22] Hey, we're to build a portfolio operations group within Partners private equity firm here in Seattle, and I thought it was an awesome opportunity to kind of melt the operational side of what I did in the Army to the strategic side of what I did at Bain, and for the most part was super impressed with their vision and the team that they had put together.

[00:03:42] And so it was a really compelling opportunity. I jumped at that about three years ago and have since been here at Rainier for the last three years. In all things value creation, all things talent, all things data systems and reporting. And so a lot of what we do to help lower middle market businesses has been almost a good culminating moment of all of those random, disparate moments that have brought me here today.

[00:04:07] It's

[00:04:09] Sean Mooney: a fascinating background. I love to maybe kind of double tap into West Point, one of the themes per. There's a fair amount of people in private equity who went through one of the military academies, including West Point. What do you think is the, the driver there? What is it that kind of secret sauce on West Point?

[00:04:31] Dave Shepard: If I think back there, I think there are a handful of hallmarks. I think one, at least in terms of West Point, one of the more interesting ways that. The finger method is essentially like just go figure it out first. And then after you've tried and struggled and often failed to figure out, then let's come together in a classroom and have somebody teach it to you.

[00:04:53] And so that muscle of seeing something new for the first time and not having structure to be able to solve it, it's like they don't teach you how to solve it.

[00:05:12] In business, but in private equity where a lot of times, like you're trying to figure out really complex problems. And so I think that is a really, really valuable skill you learn there. That translates to both private equity and just strategy in particular. So I think that's one. The other part of it is it's a relatively defined path to be a officer.

[00:05:35] From business school into whether it's consulting or finance. And so I think that kind of defined path for people like me that wouldn't have known how to get into finance otherwise is really, really both helpful, valuable, but then also leads folks with similar backgrounds to me into this kind of space.

[00:05:52] So I think the combination of those two factors is training and.

[00:06:03] Like myself, like comes together, then leads to ex-military folks with a strategic background applying that in the world of portfolio operations and finance.

[00:06:14] Sean Mooney: That's probably one of the better answers I've ever heard on that actually. I've always wondered, and I know it's like the leadership, it's the problem solving, but that whole, right from the day one, the fair method, you're saying, figure it out and then we'll bring in resources to help.

[00:06:30] Welcome to Every day I had in pe. When I was in pe. I was just like, kidding. There's not a lot of like help at the beginning. They're just like, go figure it out. And the answer is, failure's not the option. Keep on going until it's done. Yeah,

[00:06:41] Dave Shepard: and that's probably one I didn't think of. That's probably a third one.

[00:06:44] What I tell people is something I learned way back when in both West Point and Ranger School is sometimes it's.

[00:07:05] On strategy is not some silver bullet or aha moment. It's just like chopping, chopping day

[00:07:16] lot that you point

[00:07:22] part of being successful.

[00:07:24] Sean Mooney: I appreciate that is because if brilliance and strategy was the name of the game, I would've been in a lot of trouble. It's the 10% strategy, but the 90% of tenacity, grit, and resilience, that is the only way I ever made it out of whatever intro roles I've ever had.

[00:07:41] Dave Shepard: Same, I tell people all the time, I've got a very small brain, so I have to overcompensate by working hard

[00:07:46] Sean Mooney: and no offense to those who are really good at it, but it's the execution part.

[00:07:50] That's in some ways, the secret sauce. Maybe the next question I'll ask you here, Dave, is one of the things I'd like to ask is, what's one of the things we'd know you better if we knew this about you? What might one of those things be?

[00:08:03] Dave Shepard: I would say, you would know me better if you know that like learning is incredibly important, just like getting better, and so I.

[00:08:15] Growing up in a relatively modest or poor house, like just the idea of improving your station in life and doing that through education and through personal development has been a really core part of who I'm and what brought me here, and it's one that I don't want to or don't need to rely on resources to get better.

[00:08:44] And also there's just a lot of other random things that sometimes apply to what I do at Rainier or within the portfolio sometimes don't, of things like been really interested in learning and developing a perspective on AI and really like hands on keyboard, doing some coding there. For a long time I was really, really interested in understanding world of and competed pretty competitively in, so there's like random things.

[00:09:15] Growing have had this like get better day to day type of mindset, even if it's not directly applicable to what we do.

[00:09:23] Sean Mooney: And so when you're interested about something new, how do you start? What's your approach? And you're, you're just starting off on something.

[00:09:31] Dave Shepard: The way I think about is I try to almost set up a challenge of some sort, or at least like something to really sink my teeth into.

[00:09:39] Like I do like, and I do find value in reading about things or, or watching videos or tutorials about things, but I've learned best by actually doing it. And so really good example. I don't know, maybe three or four years ago at the very onset of AI machine learning, I was like, I think machine learning is interesting and applicable to so many things that we do.

[00:10:02] I'm gonna try to set up a machine learning model, and I probably fumbled through that for a good six to 12 months, but by fumbling through the process of setting one myself, myself.

[00:10:20] Architecting the right solution, getting it into production. What are the different models from a machine learning? How do you code them? How do you tweak them? How do you use them? And so what started out as this seems interesting, let just go figure it out, has led to a two to three.

[00:10:48] The best person out there, but I know enough to be dangerous, which is really, really helpful in my role for a lot of things.

[00:10:53] Sean Mooney: I totally appreciate where you're coming from. It's just the curiosity about something and then figure it out and then do it. And for a small subset of the population, that is the most fun thing you can ever do.

[00:11:06] Like I think I've told the story on that show here before, but it was last December. My son plays quiz bowl, which is kind of like competitive team jeopardy. And I was like, you never know what the score was. And so I was like, I was wondering if I could just make a quiz bowl app. And so I went to one of these tools, one's called vo, where it's these AI apps that can help just auto write code for you.

[00:11:29] And so in the course of an afternoon, it made me exactly what I wanted. The hard part was getting it into the app store because I was like, how do I get on my phone? Well, I gotta put on the app store. It was the most fun thing. And my wife's there. Now, I think by all measures of anyone who knows what they're doing, it's probably pretty janky, but, but to me, I was like, oh, this is the best Sunday ever.

[00:11:51] Dave Shepard: Yeah. Hundred percent resonates. And I've even had those moments with my wife. Julie's like, what the heck are you working on right now? I think over time she's gotten to know me more. She realizes that there are just times where I get interested in something that I.

[00:12:12] There's a lot use cases for that, but generally I found that a really valuable piece of me that's kind of carried me through that. If you knew that about me, you definitely know more about how I work.

[00:12:23] Sean Mooney: And I love that. And that's a good insight and it makes a lot of sense, particularly in terms of where we're going in the conversation here.

[00:12:31] Hey, as a quick interlude, this is Sean here. Wanted to address one quick question that we regularly get. We often get people who show up at our website, call our account executives and say, Hey, I'm not private equity. Can I still use BluWave to get connected with resources? I. And the short answer is yes.

[00:12:48] Even though we're mostly and largely used by hundreds of private equity firms, thousands of their portfolio company leaders, every day we get calls from everyday top proactive business leaders at public companies, independent companies, family companies. So absolutely you can use this as well if you want to use the exact same resources that are trusted in being deployed.

[00:13:08] And perfectly calibrated for your business needs. Give us a call. Visit our website@BluWave.net. Thanks. Back to the episode.

[00:13:21] So maybe as we turn the the page here, Dave, one of the things that I think is really extremely in PE, and it's something we've already kind of talked about, is this idea of encountering a challenge, rising up to it, overcoming it. Having a way of just kind of doing that over and over again. With that in mind, and this is kind of tenacity, resilience, grit that we've been talking about.

[00:13:48] What are maybe one are some of the harder things that you've encountered in business or life and kind of how do you take those types of things on?

[00:13:55] Dave Shepard: I would say the, a central theme in business in is just.

[00:14:07] When I say leading, the thought that comes to mind, especially from a challenging point, is it's not leading when you have direct authority, but it's around just like leading in kind of a 360 degree way where sometimes you have to lead up and sometimes you have to lead across peers. And so a lot of times it's me partnering with CEOs and the executive teams to try to implement change, which is often hard. And so you really have to rely on some of those servant leadership type of skills that helped me overcome back in the day

[00:14:43] Sean Mooney: of. The nail right on the head, particularly as you think about PE operations. And one of the things that I've spoken with friends and clients who, who are newer to those roles and the initial challenges particularly people have is they'll say, I have all of the expectation internally to get things done, but none of the mandate at the portco level, to your point.

[00:15:05] And so the way that you kind of encapsulated that from your experience in the military see how translates very well because. Within your role role in leading the portfolio operations, I'm sure your colleagues are like, we gotta get things moving faster. Welcome the business. But also you're working with the executives who really have the hands on the wheel.

[00:15:23] Do you have like an approach or a method or any kinda life acts that you found kind of make that work?

[00:15:29] Dave Shepard: I talked about the Thaer method earlier. There's also so.

[00:15:35] I find that to be one of the most powerful tools, especially if you compare it with being well prepared. Like generally in my experience, the Socratic method, which is effective, like asking questions to help drive alignment and understanding works really well if you know generally where the answers headed and you can help people feel like it's their answer.

[00:16:04] One of two things typically happens in that process. One is you drive kind of a common understanding of not only the challenge, the answer path forward, but you generate that alignment along the way. Or two, and this happens quite often from time to time, is I learned something and it changes my perspective in a way where now I understand why or understand why they.

[00:16:32] It our perspective on the Rainier side to say yes, we went into it with this perspective. Now knowing what I know now learned through the Socratic method of just asking the right questions, it informs our perspective to say, Hey, we should think about this a little differently. So I think that is one tool, very tactical tool that's been quite valuable in kind of this leadership

[00:16:59] Sean Mooney: in life. A number of kind of HBS folks, and now I appreciate what they were actually doing to me. And so the Socratic method, no, I'm just, I knew we would regularly, it was such a tool and I came on it from the deal side, but they would just drill Socratic method into me so much. And it was incredibly powerful because ultimately we're trying to seek truth, improve common understanding, get.

[00:17:29] Is a heck of a lot more effective than saying without understanding particularly, and we're seeing so many new things all the time.

[00:17:36] Dave Shepard: The one piece I would pair with it, or would give as advice is you gotta do it authentically. I think people can very clearly see through if you're trying for that gotcha moment where you're just asking a question because you already know.

[00:17:53] And building that trust with the people you're working with, absolutely critical because otherwise it won't have effect. They won't trust that legitimately looking out for their best interest and trying to understand their perspectives. So that's where there could be a kind of a common failing of using questions to try to guide the direction can go awry.

[00:18:17] Sean Mooney: I think that is a thousand percent spot on, on point there. Our conversation, I think is getting quite broad in terms of applications not only for business, but this stuff's for life in terms of the ways you can use these things to get a better we outcome out of these things.

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[00:19:45] So maybe next thing I'd love to. Get your thoughts on here, Dave, is kind of your approach at Ranier and with kind of the things that we're talking thus far. I think it'll set this up kind of nicely. How does your firm approach value creation? What resources are you bringing all to support portfolio companies that you partner with?

[00:20:05] Dave Shepard: Maybe the answer to the question, maybe I'll start with a little bit of this is a.

[00:20:13] How have we as a firm, and John and Alex in starting the firm, decided that we wanna be differentially better and or different from others. Like what do we do that is different and special? Like what is our unique special sauce? And so for us, it starts with like, the strategy is dictated by what we focus on.

[00:20:41] Oriented businesses in a handful of key strategic markets, whether it's business services, consumer services, or services or financial services. And so what that means is we're often working with a founder of a business that we've just invested in that hasn't gone through the process of.

[00:21:06] To make an investment successful, we're asking that person to partner with us to double the size of the business in five years or less, or something to that effect. And so having gone through that exercise time and time again, what we really started to do is refine how we approached and really make it more defined and repeatable.

[00:21:29] So.

[00:21:34] We've partners is Summit is our approach to creation, which encapsulates kind of that end process we like to do with partners that we invest in. So the way that I think about it is, it's all of the steps that you take in an individual partnership from a value creation perspective, the ask set the team, you get upgrade visibility, and.

[00:22:02] What's our end? What do we wanna be in five years and working back are the operational quick wins? Early investment is like really, really crucial to getting the flywheel spinning and then really starting to go through and instituting the operational rigor, managing k.

[00:22:30] Trenches. My leadership style has always been to be on the front lines in the trenches and not on a hill directing traffic. And so I try to encourage us as a team to do that with the founders and the partners that we to say, Hey, we're gonna do this together. And been pretty powerful recipe and a pretty powerful blueprint, which we try to.

[00:22:58] Sean Mooney: I really like what you articulated there. There's a lot of, I think, some great recurring themes in our conversation. One is kind of integrating the concept of and not, or the strategy and execution working hand in hand. And I like it how there's just some common core principles of business buildings in there in terms of you gotta get the team, you gotta be able to measure what matters while you're along the way.

[00:23:19] You gotta bring your strategy down to execution, like get the quick wins, like one step at a time type stuff. And then can you get that flywheel winning faster and more efficiently? And then do you have the right people on the bus? This is like Jim Collins is probably smiling when he listens to the, and this whole idea that also that I, I appreciate is, is there's a, we not a me or this kind of chain of command per se.

[00:23:42] It's like no four codes, weren't it with you together. We're gonna win together or not. And so let's kind of march together towards the top of that hill.

[00:23:52] Dave Shepard: Hundred percent, I think you said it way better and more articulate than I could have. And at the end of the day, the way that I view the world is if our portfolio companies are successful, like we as a firm will be successful, period.

[00:24:04] And so all of my energy goes towards making them success successful. And so it's less about how do I.

[00:24:20] Investments, returns and good outcomes is individuals on the team and businesses see a lot of success.

[00:24:27] Sean Mooney: So you're kicking off a new relationship with a portfolio company. To what degree do they know this is the process that will be coming their way?

[00:24:35] Dave Shepard: We typically tee it up in diligence, and so I.

[00:24:45] Here are the steps of the process and when you'll see more of me and less of me, and what we found is, especially in diligence management teams are really excited about that. A lot of times they're seeking investment to grow, and more often than not, the founders that we invest in stay in the business.

[00:25:03] And so they're really.

[00:25:12] With partners that we do the assessment, the leadership diagnostic of a team, before we even do the investment to say, Hey, setting the team is so critical and you wanna do that as quickly as possible, let's do some of that work in diligence starting summit process. And so the short answer is we set the expectation and really just give them the roadmap.

[00:25:43] The.

[00:25:46] Sean Mooney: I once again, very much appreciate your approach there and, and at the risk of discussing a concept that came out of McKinsey to a Bain person, it reminds me of like the pyramid principle. It's like, start with a punchline upfront. Here's the answer, and then you kind of build into how you're going to do it.

[00:26:05] And they already know this is the method that you're gonna do together and they can probably see how your questions are in support of, I. You take the mystery out of it, you know what the ending is and how you're gonna go there before you even start walking along the path together.

[00:26:22] Dave Shepard: I think that's well said, and it gives us just that framework to one, drive the work and making sure we're doing all the things that we think we need to do to be successful.

[00:26:30] But it helps give them the roadmap to say, Hey, there are foundational components of working with partners, so foundation. And

[00:26:43] Sean Mooney: as you think about this kind of approach, how much are they involved in the orchestration of this with you all and how kind of like symbiotic is the interactions?

[00:26:55] Dave Shepard: The way I would describe the interactions is in some ways I'm a little more of the orchestrator and facilitator, and again, using a lot of the things that we've.

[00:27:14] To ask the right questions and really bring out the expertise and experience that sits around the room, because oftentimes these management teams have decades of experience and something that we at the Rainier side might have months of experience or years of experience if we've seen deals in this previously.

[00:27:31] And so oftentimes 90% of.

[00:27:40] A lot of the magic that I provide is structuring it in a way to drive clear, understanding, articulation, and focus. So it's more of a process and orchestration that happens on our side versus all of the people playing the beautiful music are and management table.

[00:27:59] Sean Mooney: I love that. And, Maybe Dave, as we kind of move to the next chapter of our conversation and with advice in mind, what are some of the top piece of advice that you and your colleagues are offering to your portfolio companies today to kind of manage not only the now, but what's to come.

[00:28:17] Dave Shepard: I would say maybe two things we've already talked about a little bit, so I won't spend a ton of time, is one, making sure that your tactics, the things you do day to day is tied to your strategy. So the analogy I often give just to bring it to life as we're going through the summit process, where we're the strategy and developing some of those tactics is think about the World war, the strategy to.

[00:28:44] D-Day invasions to kind create that second front. But the tactics was literally driving the boat to the beach and getting off the beach in a way that could establish the beachhead. And so similarly, the advice I give to all of our businesses is, let's define the strategy, then pull the thread to identify the operational initiatives.

[00:29:05] Go further to say what are we doing on a day in, day out basis? What are the tactics that we're doing to deliver that? So that's the one piece of advice that I continue to drive home with a lot of our leaders to say, let's make sure that everything we do is connected to that state. So that's one. And then two, and kind of, I previewed a little earlier.

[00:29:26] I.

[00:29:33] I continue to give advice to our leaders to say, if we wanna capitalize on this growing trend, a lot of it will depend on the underlying data and systems that we have in place today. Generally speaking, especially today, the ai, it's useless without the foundational data.

[00:30:03] Into place and understand the areas of your business that you can leverage it or else others that you compete with. So if you wanna stay competitive and leverage what I believe will be really foundational, transformational tools, a lot of it will rest on your ability to leverage the unique and proprietary data and systems.

[00:30:30] Skills, tools, technology tomorrow.

[00:30:35] Sean Mooney: I love both of those and one for our listeners. Dave summed up probably a huge portion of HBS into a very elegant like, here's what strategy is. You're so right. It's like your strategy, start with where you wanna get to, and then a tie tactics to get you to that spot and then work your way back and then chunk it into what you're gonna do next year and year before.

[00:30:58] Measure along the way and probably lots of lefts and rights and hitting the brakes

[00:31:02] Dave Shepard: course correct as you go. That's right.

[00:31:04] Sean Mooney: Yeah. So save your money people listen to Dave. The other thing I think that was really insightful was your perspective on ai. In some ways, people ask what our business is, and I'll say we're a data business.

[00:31:18] It's 'cause it's the data that enables everything else that we do. And really almost on a daily basis, we're getting calls from people like, how do I do neural networks? And we're like, whoa. Let's get your data clean. Let's get it into Snowflake. Let's visualize it and then analyze it. And then you're gonna know where to put the tools.

[00:31:39] 'cause your strategy is gonna be so much better informed. And then don't view AI as a strategy. It's a tool. It's a.

[00:31:52] Dave Shepard: Is there's kind of that foundational data architecture that you have to build first and then to demystify AI a little bit. Like AI is kind of a, it's where we wanna be. It's like artificial intelligence. But within ai, in order to achieve that, there are specific tools, like there are machine learning models, various machine learning models.

[00:32:19] So all of these are tools within the umbrella of artificial intelligence, but those are only good tools if they're built on solid foundation of data, in the right context, in the right situation, helping make decisions.

[00:32:33] Sean Mooney: What you pointed out there as well is this whole idea that everyone says, oh, the robots are taking over.

[00:32:38] It's like, well, the robots aren't replacing us, but someone who uses it, well, probably will. And then if you think about what are the real differentiators, it's everyone's. Access to almost the sum total of human knowledge and the winners going forward. I mean, those who have access to these large language models, these kinda machine learning models, the availability of data that everyone else has in the world, and then one data set that no one has, ergo those are the winners.

[00:33:06] So to your point, I think you making that point. So foundationally is once again, very prescient kind of lens into what business builders need to do. If they're gonna be on the top of the mountain when these days and months and years go by really quickly.

[00:33:22] Dave Shepard: And it kind of goes back to maybe even where we started earlier in the conversation is don't be afraid to, as business leaders, to spend some time really opening up the hood, really getting in there and understanding the pieces because I, I. I think you articulated it best that AI is a tool. There are tools within there and an understanding of like what are the inputs into it, like what is the fuel that makes it go without having spent some time really just like anchoring, understanding how it works and trying to build one and trying to.

[00:33:58] Figure out why it's not working. So those have all been really foundational and me understanding now as it's become more and more applicable to business to say, okay, now for each of our portfolio companies, where could we potentially use this? And how do we actually do that in production?

[00:34:13] Sean Mooney: So many times we'll be working with a company where it's just, they're completely new to it and they're just daunted, and it's just almost like, how do you even start?

[00:34:23] Because the end state seems so far away and they're already behind. How do you counsel your executives that you partner with your companies to kind of just get started?

[00:34:33] Dave Shepard: I would say it's still a challenge we're grappling with, the way that I've seen it be most successful is to identify very clear, specific use cases within a business.

[00:34:44] An example, we have an administration business where a. When they administer benefits welfare, there a significant amount of effort to translate of the logic of a health plan into the systems that the organization uses to run the administration. There's a lot of manual work that goes into that, like very large PDF documents that have to be translated into rules or logic that then have to be coded into pretty antiquated language.

[00:35:20] And this is a use case that you described earlier, well, is largely which models as a capability do that really well, but they can only do that in.

[00:35:36] Funds, and so that is a very specific use case as I talked to the C of business to say, let's demystify AI a bit. Let's just talk about this one Really critical part of the business that is a pain point for us as we continue to grow here is a potential tool that we can apply to.

[00:36:04] With ai, but it's more of, there is this very specific thing that we do in the organization where a tool within the AI umbrella can make an impact.

[00:36:12] Sean Mooney: Once again, I think it's so spot on and it, it made me, for whatever reason, was thinking about when then machine learning it was coming out and we would look, I used to invest in information data and analytics companies and we would go and we'd meet these early kind of pioneers and they would say, well, what are you gonna do with this machine learning application that you're developing?

[00:36:30] And they would say, we're gonna cure cancer. What do you mean you're gonna cure cancer? Like all of it. Like all of it. Like you're like, you know what you should do is, how about you just cure patient satisfaction? There's billions of dollars to it and it's easy. Like, so it's just like, to your point, it's just like start one place where there's a clear application, get a win, and that's gonna take them on the journey and get the flywheel and the confidence and everything spinning.

[00:36:53] Dave Shepard: I, I totally agree. I love the way that, and the other piece too is there's just so many unsexy steps. Into production. Production is like the ability use over and over again, and it's ingrained in the way work as a business. That alone is a capability that you have to build within an organization to say, okay, we have all of these systems, we have all of this data.

[00:37:15] How do we move that along into systems that it's clean, readily usable, train a.

[00:37:31] Without the lift of creating it from scratch. So that capability, that muscle is one that you have to build and it's best built by doing it, but doing it in a very specific defined use case.

[00:37:44] Sean Mooney: Yeah, I think that's once again like double tap of that, so, so very good. With all this in mind, it's a good segue to the last part of our conversation here where I'm always looking for gems of.

[00:37:58] advice As a way that I kind of Frankenstein myself into being a semi like effective human being. And so, and it's, life's a journey, not a destination. Right. But if you could go back, Dave, to your 22-year-old self and give yourself a piece of advice that you wish you knew, then what might one of those pieces of advice be?

[00:38:17] Dave Shepard: I would say maybe the one piece of advice that that person would.

[00:38:24] It doesn't have to be learning specific to the job that you're doing today, because oftentimes, especially in the world of business, the most valuable things you learn or the most valuable things you can apply or even the way to be differentially better than others, is to apply lessons from other aspects of life and business.

[00:38:53] So I would say my advice is always seek out opportunities, be intellectually curious and carve out that time, and give your time yourself the time to tinker and get underneath the hood and figure things out and challenge yourself to build the Quiz Bowl app or whatever it is. Like those things are critically important and valuable as investment in yourself to.

[00:39:20] Don't shy away from learning things that don't have anything to do with the army.

[00:39:24] Sean Mooney: It's so great advice, right? Because it's just, particularly when you're younger and let say when I was younger, I was just like running as fast as I could with blinders on each side, and you're just going from waypoint to waypoint and it's flowing by, and a lot of times I was just like running into tunnels and I didn't know if there was a, a light or a train at the other end, like get knocked on my back and then to pick him up.

[00:39:47] So much along the time. It's just, it's selfishly good for you too. Just take the time to learn about the world and where it's going and why it's going, and then it becomes so much more fascinating. And maybe now I'm able to do a little more because my kids are kind of getting older. But I wish I had taken that time earlier when I didn't have time to make it happen so I could be more kind of structurally curious.

[00:40:10] Dave Shepard: Yeah.

[00:40:13] Sean Mooney: So, Dave, this has been an amazing conversation. I'm really grateful and appreciative that you took the time and I know that I'm better for it. And so thank you for teaching me all sorts of things. I wish I knew then as well. And I look forward to talking again soon on similarly curious, bizarre things that we're both up to next.

[00:40:34] Dave Shepard: Yeah.

[00:40:38] I talk about things like this with like-minded folks who have really, really awesome experiences like you have because I learned as much or more you might heard me.

[00:40:57] Sean Mooney: That's all we have for today. Special thanks for joining. If you'd like to learn more about Dave Shepard and Ranier Partners, please see the episode notes for links. Please continue to look for the Karma School. Business podcast. Anywhere you find your favorite podcast, we truly appreciate your support.

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[00:41:49] The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the individuals presenting and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any other persons or entities, including those referenced herein. No representations, warranties, financial, legal, tax, or other advice are made herein. Consult your advisors regarding any topics discussed during this episode.

Private equity insights for and with top business builders, including investors, operators, executives and industry thought leaders. The Karma School of Business Podcast goes behind the scenes of PE, talking about business best practices and real-time industry trends. You'll learn from leading professionals and visionary business executives who will help you take action and enhance your life, whether you’re at a PE firm, a portco or a private or public company.

BluWave Founder & CEO Sean Mooney hosts the Private Equity Karma School of Business Podcast. BluWave is the business builders’ network for private equity grade due diligence and value creation needs.